NICE NIMBUS!
Recall that I said two overarching elements determine the quality of a speaker, the design and parts. Ryan is nearly fanatical about the parts quality of Vapor speakers, “Assuming I do my job as the designer and utilize 100% of the performance available, the parts I start with are everything. Every driver has a hard ceiling for how much it can deliver, no matter how good I am the final system sound will never surpass the ceiling set by the components used… There’s absolutely a cumulative effect of doing all the little things, by not compromising at any stage of design or build.” Now, this is something all speaker manufacturers are going to say, but few follow up with execution on a level of Vapor Audio.
It is time, then, to get down to the nitty-gritty of this speaker, starting with the design and construction. The Nimbus comes in two versions, the White and Black, dependent upon the color and character of the Midrange driver used; “Black” denotes a pair of Wavecor WF152 6” and “White” indicates a set of Accuton C158-8-085 6” in an MTM (Mid/Tweeter/Mid) arrangement. This is a shrewd move on Vapor Audio’s part, as there appears to be a mixed consensus on the merits of ceramic drivers. Offering a more traditional paper Mid with a less precision-oriented and more laid back oriented sound will appeal to many.
Also implemented are the RAAL 70-20 XR ribbon tweeter and the stunning Acoustic Elegance TD15H 15” bass driver. This is simply a marvelous alignment of three superbly accurate drivers. RAAL and Accuton have carved out devoted followings in the high end earned by notable performance. But Acoustic Elegance, where did this come from? This company has a reputation of making PA drivers, but was approached to craft a bass driver with the power handling capability of a PA speaker and the acoustic sensibilities of an audiophile speaker. My, oh my, did this company come through with the goods! I have heard a lot of bass from a lot of big drivers over the years including the JM Jabs, MBL, Vivid, YG Acoustics, REL and Legacy Audio’s coupled twin 15” sets in the Whisper combined with the EXTREME HD Subwoofers. The Acoustic Elegance strikes my ear as being in comfortable company with any of these speakers’ low frequency performance not only in terms of precision, but also in terms of sheer dynamic capacity. The TD15H can move air and pressurize a room with a single 15” driver nearly as well as larger premium subwoofers!
To give some sense of the grandness of the bass imagine a Tannoy 15” with its easeful and generously open bass, but remove the cabinet resonance and jack up the meatiness about three times – then you’re sensing the Acoustic Elegance experience! While using the Nimbus White I sidelined the Legacy Audio XTREME HD Subwoofers I purchased after their review because they simply are not needed. Whereas the Legacy Whisper DSW Clarity Edition reaches 20Hz +/- 3dB it does not do so as sharply and with as immediately dramatic an impact as the Nimbus White. According to Ryan, “Drivers that are 95dB sensitive, can deliver bass to 30Hz, and can be used through the midrange (The crossover point between Bass and Midrange is just below 400Hz.) are rare as hens teeth. Honestly if the Acoustic Elegance driver didn’t exist, the Nimbus White design might not be possible.” I can hear what Ryan is talking about, and my ear says, “Amen!”
The Bass/Midrange crossover is constructed with premium parts; VH Audio OIMP capacitors, wax/paper inductors from Jensen, and wiring is Kimber 4TC for the Midrange drivers and Vapor’s own hand braid of Kimber TCSS for the Tweeter. The Woofer uses Jupiter 12Ga UPOCC cotton insulated solid core copper wiring. Ryan notes, “This is a recipe that was arrived at after much experimentation, and while wiring differences admittedly are small, every little bit counts.”
Do not even think to compare the bass performance of the Nimbus White to speakers with dual 8” or 10” bass drivers, as the Nimbus will simply obliterate them. I have used the Wilson Benesch Curve, Von Schweikert VR4-SR MkII and Legacy Focus SE among others and these cannot ramp up in terms of dynamic fortitude and sense of scale like the Nimbus. The PA pedigree of the Acoustic Elegance bass driver yields a memorably forceful output that can be scaled up with no perceptual decrease in cleanness.
Regarding the front slot loading for the Acoustic Elegance 15” Ryan says, “Front ports are more accommodating to most real-world rooms, but the issue can be port noise and resonances. Because of the cross sectional area of the Nimbus port, we were able to keep port noise very low.” This design is not a transmission line, as is found in the current top model Joule White. The port enables the speaker to carry much more dynamic fortitude than if it were a sealed box design.
NASTY NIMBUS!
Ryan includes what I consider to be harsh sounding music in the assessment of his speakers. After I had run through some of my standard test tracks at a moderate listening level, as I was not familiar with the outside limits of the speaker, he patched in a few files of Infected Mushroom into the ridiculously capable and affordable Musical Fidelity V90-DAC. This music will punish genteel audio systems. Frankly, it will make them sound poor, as they cannot cope with the extreme transients at high SPL playback. I estimate the listening level was near 100dB but the speakers showed not the slightest bit of congestion or lagging. It simply was the most impressively clean low frequency demonstration I have experienced in my room. I have had other speakers produce more sheer power but none with such perfect purity. Those who think a 15” driver can’t be clean had better rethink their Bass paradigm because the Nimbus proves you can have both crushing and crisp bass.
I am pleased by the performance of the twin ceramic mids and RAAL ribbon. I cannot think of a speaker I have used with a higher degree of coherency between the Midrange and Treble drivers. Quite a bit of care was taken in the design to maximize these drivers in the cabinet structure. Ryan’s co-worker, Pete Schumacher, distributor of Arte Forma Audio products, and Pete’s friend Ed Rosenquist, a woodworker who had experience using curved forms, earlier had dreamed up a speaker design called “Byzantium” which was not distant in appearance from the Nimbus. Ed is now a Vapor Audio employee building the Nimbus cabinets.
An ultra-refined HDF called “Plum Creek” is pliable to create the 1” thick side panels by sandwiching many thin layers glued in form with Marine Epoxy. The 2” thick front baffle is made of a sandwich of Plum Creek and Baltic Birch, and the faceting, driver cutouts and Bass slot are CNC machined. The top Midrange driver angles downward at 3 degrees while the overall cabinet slopes backward at 3 degrees, thus both Midranges end up on the same vertical plane and in alignment with the tweeter. Ryan comments, “The midrange drivers are pushed out to align their acoustic centers with that of the tweeter, or time alignment.” The tweeter rests between two curved facets recessed into the front baffle, which causes diffraction effects to be spread out over a broad range, greatly minimizing their impact. The cabinet’s interior side and back walls are coated with a ½” layer of mysterious “Inversion Layer” material.
Ribbon tweeters are favored in many of today’s designs. To my ear as a technology they are surpassing even high quality dynamic tweeters. For instance, the Legacy Audio Whisper’s new AMT dual tweeter with radiating surface area similar to the RAAL is a welcome improvement to that speaker’s outdated 1” ribbon tweeter. To use anything less than a high-grade ribbon in the Nimbus design would have been a travesty.
- ← Previous page
- (Page 3 of 6)
- Next page →
Thanks for the heartfelt words, Doug! Nimbus is like more like a sculpture for me to build; it is NOT a box. When others enjoy what I build, that makes the time spent worthwhile. Thanks again!
I, like many of your other readers, I’m sure, have followed the travails of the many who have posted on the various fora regarding what can only be described as the minefield of the order/delivery process for these speakers.
You state in your review that you purchased a demo pair so that certainly implies that they were already built when you spoke up for them and even then, there were delays and periods of silence in finally taking possession.
So the clock is now ticking as regards your most recent order. In fairness to all, I hope you will be as forthcoming with updates and status reports for these as you were in this review.
I, for one, have never laid eyes or ears on the Vapor line but it seems a bloody shame that so many “shenanigans” seem to be part and parcel with the procurement process.
I sincerely hope they are worth the trouble.
Alan,
God’s Blessings to you,
I can neither absolutely verify, nor falsify claims made online. I considered the forum complaints – no, I do not have time to read every last one, nor the inclination – when I contemplated writing the article. It was the reason I specifically discussed the structure and methods of the company. It should be obvious to all by now that 1. Vapor doesn’t operate like a regular speaker company, and 2. it doesn’t build a speaker at a valuation point like a regular speaker company.
Perhaps if I share a bit more about the current project people can understand Ryan and Vapor Audio better. Here’s an update: I was initially looking to have the Joule White in Brazilian Rosewood, as per Ryan’s recommendation. About four weeks into the process Ryan said he would like to change it to Saeple. This was shocking to me initially, as I had my heart/mind set on the Rosewood. I imagined it in the room, prepared for it. Now, in a moment he was suggesting something quite different.
So, was that a problem? Did it mean he was running roughshod over my wishes or that he didn’t listen to me? Perhaps I should not give an inch, and take high offense that he “changed the plan” on me, then go online and complain. I decided to give Ryan an ear, and by the time we were done talking, even though I emotionally wasn’t there yet, decided to trust him on the color scheme. Now, two weeks later, I’m there emotionally and believe the change will be good.
I share this because Vapor Audio truly seems to be a custom speaker shop, not a “crank out the basic template” factory. My wife has a small high end costume jewelry business called Splendor by Connie Schroeder (Yes, that is a shameless plug because I am very proud of her!), and she would be driven nuts to produce myriads of cookie cutter products. She makes nearly every piece unique. I see Ryan similarly; he wants each speaker to be a creation, an expression of artistry and excellence. Engaging with a company like this is quite different than walking into a B&M audio shop and buying a speaker. If the audiophile doesn’t want to have any inconveniences involved in obtaining a custom speaker, then they should not buy a Vapor Audio speaker. They can go and spend two to four times as much to buy a speaker on a perfectly tracked timeline for delivery which will have a very good chance of sounding worse.
I do feel for people who engaged with Vapor early thinking there would be hard timelines, no potential disappointments, etc. They likely have a very different view of Vapor. OTOH, there are some truly callow, demanding, quite unreasonable people who will tell only half the story online, and who when they get it stuck in their craw will become quite vengeful in an attempt to hurt the manufacturer. I sometimes hear the horror stories from manufacturers who must tolerate customers from Hell, even when the manufacturer has gone far beyond reason to satisfy the customer. The manufacturers swallow their anger and frustration rather than damn the customer publicly, for they fear it will hurt their business more than just letting it go.
So, Alan, I am going to cut this right down the middle; Vapor operates in a fashion which disgruntles certain audiophiles, and conversely there are certain PITA audiophiles who should never buy a speaker from any company which they cannot receive reassurance, nearly down to the minute.
I chose to largely ignore any controversies in forums for that reason, for the same reason I prefer not to walk into quicksand. I shared my experience candidly so that others can weigh it for themselves. I have never been a fan of the politics involved in my hobbies, so don’t hold your breath waiting for me to resolve such issues. 🙂
Blessings,
Douglas Schroeder
Hi Doug,
Reading your review almost made me blush. You put into words exactly how I felt when Ryan and I first powered up Nimbus White. It was without a doubt the most amazing audio experience I’d had to that time. Then, Joule White happened . . .
I just want to point out that while I do handle Arte Forma in the US, I’m only designing a single amplifier for Arte Forma. Norman Yang’s team in Formosa is responsible for their excellent lineup. I’ve only consulted with them on a few things related to electrical engineering questions.
I heard both the Nimbus and the Joule at the last Rockey mountain show. The Nimbus was being driven by a single ended tube amp while the Joule was driven by a solid state amp. The Nimbus with tubes was much better sounding than the Joule. The Nimbus with the tube amp had a very livefeel to it while the Joule simply sounded on the dull side. If I was in the market for a speaker I would definitely consider the Nimbus but not the Joule. I think it is a mistake to by a speaker that you have not listened to. By the way I have Maggie 3.6 driven by a Shindo preamp and two Berning ZH-270 power amps. This combo is still the best I have ever heard but the Nimbus with tubes is close
Alan Hendler
Peter and Alan,
God’s Joy to you Gentlemen,
Peter, thank you for your clarification; sometimes the seemingly small assumptions or terms are misused, leading to great confusion. I have attempted an editorial fix for the article since this has been brought to my attention.
Alan H, I do not doubt your experience; the sound caliber of the Vapor speakers are such that they dramatically show the nature of the gear ahead of them. In addition, the delights of show goers varies incredibly. I might have concluded the same as you had I heard the two speakers set up as they were. In fact I had heard similar comments from others, so your helpful comment has already been factored into my decision.
Knowing what a Vapor speaker can do in terms of varying sound with different electronics, and having walked through in careful discussion every aspect of the differences in design, construction and performance between the Nimbus and Joule with Ryan, I am pretty confident that I am making the right move, especially since upper end drivers from the RAAL and Accuton lines are employed in the Joule White. You notice also that Peter alludes in his post above to the Joule being superior holistically. Who knows? You may be right, but I don’t think so. 🙂
You have lovely pre/amplification; I am imagining what it would sound like with the King Sound King III ESL. You might wish to read my thought provoking reviews of the King and then the King III, both of which are found on this website. Brace yourself for my assessment of other panels as compared to the KingIII.
Blessings,
Douglas Schroeder
As a current owner of the Joule Whites I believe you will be MORE than satisfied with your decision.
The best thing that I can say about them is that when people hear them they don’t want to leave. It’s always oh, just play one more song which leads to just one more song and one more song. Enjoy!
Chuck,
God’s Joy to you,
Thanks! I don’t think I’m making a mistake, either! It would be awfully difficult to improve upon the driver set across the board and with the same designer end up with a poorer speaker. That’s just not going to happen. Even mass marketed speaker manufacturers can easily improve upon their models as the line goes higher. So, when Ryan indicates the Joule White is perceptually about 30% better, I do not find that difficult to believe.
Part of the problem is that the Nimbus is so fantastically visually appealing that people begin to think it must sound better. I find myself so enamored not just of the sound, but also the appearance that it is hard to contemplate selling it. But one does not achieve greater things by sitting with the status quo, however, lovely it may be.
Blessings,
Douglas Schroeder
First off, thank you so much Doug for the thoughtful and thorough review! Also thanks to Dagogo for making it all possible. Being an outsider in the audio World, it’s a bit stressful trusting people you don’t know to convey to the World what your creations are all about. But those worries proved unfounded, the experience with Doug and Dagogo could not have been better.
About the Joule at RMAF, when that side of the room was working properly they sounded quite nice if a bit thin. But we had many equipment failures, and ended up chasing our tails for the better part of the weekend. However, the pair of Joule that went to the show had 30 seconds, literally, of time on them before arrival. And no voicing had been done at all. When we got them back home we found the midrange was around 2-3db too hot, so the final product sounds much different than what was at the show. We’ll leave it to Doug to after he receives his pair to let people know just how they compare.
Hi
Great looking speaker, no questioning that. Bet they sound as good also. Can these compare with brands like Magico, WilsonSasha, Tad or other known brands? Will try and get me one pair of these…Do you consider these to be ” first generation” Nimbus, since they are quite new, and will they improve even more within the next year? I miss a stand where it would be able to adjust the tilting/angle of the speaker, since not all floors a 100% horizontal. Is that something you have considered?
I was at the audio show in Denver and can attest to Ryan’s frustration with the equipment problems powering the Joules so evaluating that speaker at that show is not a fair depiction of the speakers potential. I am sure Doug the reviewer will play with a lot of stuff to get the best sound possible in his room which will be nothing short of spectacular . I have my Cirrus back at Vapor to have a base unit designed for them so I can get to (I hope) 85 – 90% of what the joule will sound like… I was quite enamored with the look and sound of the Nimbus at the show and if the Joule is better whew… As with most boutique companies be patient and be rewarded…
So Doug, did you like the speaker? Just kidding. I too thought the Nimbus performance/price ratio was off the charts as evidenced in my Newport Beach show report. Constantine gave you the long straw for the review, so I live vicariously from your review.
Cheers,
Paul
Runi, Michael,
God’s Peace to you both,
Regarding whether the Nimbus White can compare with brands like Magico, Wilson, etc. – all speakers can be compared, as we well know. I assume you mean “compared favorably,” and though I have not done so directly I would answer yes. I have heard Magico, Wilson, TAD, etc. and the Nimbus White while not perhaps made from an in-house design process is made from an extreme performance perspective. As such it performs way past it’s price point, and I believe into the territory of these other speaker brands. Whether one would consider it superior is a subjective judgment, but it would not be a foolish thought to consider the Nimbus White when thinking of these other speakers.
Like many other manufacturers the design is subject to running changes, and I assume Ryan will incorporate them. This question is best directed to Vapor Audio, as I do not wish to speak for the company regarding design particulars which may or may not come about. I know one thing; an audiophile can pine for the “next version,” forever and never acquire the fantastic products of a manufacturer. To do so with the Nimbus White at such prices would, imo, be very short-sighted.
Finally, the speaker has adjustable spikes, as with nearly every quality floor standing speaker.
Michael, that sounds like a thrilling update to get an accompanying bass module! Yes, the Nimbus is a stunner, but sonically I fully expect it to be fairly easily surpassed by the Joule. I have learned not to place limits on what I expect can happen in terms of performance; there have been too many times that the doubt, “It can’t get much better than this,” has been shattered by a new product/model.
Blessings,
Douglas Schroeder
Pete/Ryan: congratulations – have been out of audio for quite a while but wanted to say “GREAT!” on Vapor and becoming successful in the hobby.
Cheers / Robert (old PE Board/inDIYana/Iowa guy)
Hi Doug,
So how do you compare this speaker to the Giya G1, in terms of dynamics, imaging, and naturality among other attributes?
Thanks,
Faisal
Faisal,
God’s Peace to you,
In brief, I would not compare many speakers to the Vivid speakers, as they are exquisite. I would, however, compare the Vapor speakers to the Vivid. I cannot speak definitively about it, as I have not had both in my room. From hearing the Vivid line at various shows I would suggest that many of the characteristics of superior sound found in the Vivid brand are also present in the Vapor brand.
Generally, I would rate them both as superb in terms of micro dynamics, but the Nimbus White superior in terms of macrodynamics. As regards imaging, the Giya G1 model is better only because the Nimbus White incorporates dual Mids; in this regard the G1 would be more closely matched with the Joule White. “Natural” is a fairly nebulous term when it comes to audiophile, however, I have heard them both sound convincing in terms of fooling the ear into thinking it is hearing a live event.
Additionally, the Nimbus White is the best dynamic speaker I have used to date in terms of imitating the speed, coherence and scale of a panel speaker like the King Sound King III.
Perhaps you would also like to reach out to Ed Momkus of Dagogo, as he has the Giya G1, I believe.
Blessings,
Douglas Schroeder
What a GREAT review!
I loved every line of it.
I now see that I’m no different then others, still waiting for Ryans reply to my e-mail.
I was just about to give up and move to the two or three other candidates when I read this review that I decided to wait a bit longer…
However, I am using a pair of VTL MB-125 monoblocks.
These puppies run at 55W in triod and 100W in tetrode.
(The triod is greatly better and my end choice).
So my concern is would my VTL’s be enough??
After all, a 15″ driver is not child’s play and the specs list a much higher recommended amp supply than a 55W push pull.
What do you think? Have you tried the Nimbus White with anything similar?
Guy,
The Joy of God to you,
No, you are not being discriminated against by Ryan for having to wait. Vapor Audio is “under the gun” with success exceeding current capability to make speakers – what a horrible problem, eh? I have been in conversation with Ryan several times and know the maddening delays he’s experienced with third party parts suppliers. Things are moving forward, just not as smoothly as a company with an in house CNC machine, etc.
I have also had delays on my planned Joule White upgrade, some of them due to upgrades Ryan and I have been discussing, and others due the aforementioned issues. I’m not foolish, however, such that I would get pissed off and cancel my order. That would be a dumb move, given the performance level to cost of a Vapor speaker – even after the price increase.
Vapor is not a churn-it-out, cookie cutter speaker manufacturer, but instead a custom speaker builder. The eyes and ears pretty easily see and hear what the result is if an individual can endure some wait time, even if it is extended.
Regarding the 55wpc VTL’s, no, this is not ideal. However, Ryan has run lower powered amps with his speakers at times at shows and they have sounded satisfactory to him. I certainly would not dismiss the speaker for that reason. I would much prefer hearing a superior speaker with a bit underpowered amp, than an inferior speaker with plenty of power. One simply cannot make an inferior speaker take the performance leap to compete well.
Would a higher powered amp result in a different experience? Of course, but I suggest it would be a mistake to turn away from the Vapor speaker simply because it might be underpowered. Would it be “enough”? That’s your determination, but if it wasn’t enough, I would strongly suggest you get a different amp, perhaps upgrade the VTL to another model, rather than dump the Vapor speaker. This is a case where if it doesn’t sound right, you change anything else, not the speaker.
Finally, you might just conclude that with the right cables you prefer the VTL in tetrode with the Vapor. I have had similar changes in preference in regard to an amp’s operational mode when switching speakers. I would certainly not discount that possibility, but would try it!
Blessings,
Douglas Schroeder
Hey Douglas,
Thank you for the informative and kind reply.
I fully acknowledge what you are saying regarding the long lead time duration’s in contrast of the the Vapor product level which by all means seem to be exquisite.
I have no problem with a long wait for a new speaker of this grade, after all, bringing together a proper hi-end system takes a tremendous amount of time & energy and obviously patience.
After reading your review I just made a switch in the state of mind regarding Vapor. 😉
Regarding my current amps,
Well, upgrading was not in the initial plan. I’m very very happy with them.
But as stated, I assumed from first glance at the Nimbus that 55wpc push pull won’t do the job.
So I started investigating, and I regretfully have to say that the Nimbus is becoming ever far from making it to my home.
I’ll explain,
I live in Israel. So I am buying blind.
I spoke to Ryan last year, Vapor does not participate at the annual Munich hi-end show.
They are (at this point) only within US shows.
So for me, listening to them has pretty much become impossible.
Now, we’re looking at ~$15,000 / $20,000 for a pair of Nimbus Whites or Joule (bearing in mind a few upgrades).
Shipping, local tax, import fees, paperwork etc. all come to around $5000-$7000.
I am OK with that.
But, if I end up spending another ~$5000 upgrading the VTL’s it’s just way off budget.
And I must say, there is no scene in this adventure.
All this said with conceptual comprehension that I like the sound.
If not, I’m pretty much screwed (pardon my french).
I’ll wait for Ryan’s reply and see what are he’s thoughts.
I do hope for the best, like I said, I’m keeping an open mind.
All the best!
p.s.
Looking forward to you’r next ‘Vapor’ review!!!